Pizer posts to Cryonet again suggesting Alcor board may be invalid-- however does not take a next step. Suggests that Alcor hire a lawyer to figure it out when in fact Dave could hire a lawyer to figure it out-- and subpeona certain people-- if it turns out that the board is not valid. The other step forward would be wider notification to members of the situation. As it is, it's beginning to look as if this will go nowhere-- Dave offerred no report on the recent board meeting-- so the next indications would be Alcor's blog report on that meeting. My personal view is that this problem is merely interesting at this point-- but I have more pressing concerns. It's probably true with other members too.
QUOTE from DAve on Cold Filter and Cryonet [+]
Go back
Untitled
March 5 2008 at 6:57 PM david pizer (Login davidpizer)
Veteran Member
To: The Alcor Board
To the Alcor members through various cryonics forums.
=============================================
Here are the only important issues:
1. Which election system should be legally in place now?
2. What are the ramifications?
I will discuss each of these issues briefly and give my opinions about each subject below:
==============================
1. What system should be legally in place for electing Directors now at Alcor?
The way I read the Alcor Bylaws and the California law that regulates them, I believe that at the present time the only people who have the right to elect Alcor Directors are Alcor members. (I have given members and Directors previous specific information on this).
The Directors do not have the right to elect Directors according to the 1972 original Alcor Bylaws.
I believe these Bylaws are still in force today because I do not think they have every been legally amended. They have been amended but the California Corporation Code (Section 5150) seems to say that when Directors amend Bylaws that have to do with the voting rights of members, then the members have to approve those amended Bylaws. I don't see where the members have ever done this.
If all this is true, as I believe it is based on what I have read so far, then the amended Bylaws giving the Directors the right to elect Directors are not valid. Therefore all persons calling themselves Directors, who were elected by other Directors and not the membership, (I believe that it all of those who presently call themselves Directors) are NOT Directors.
I am not a lawyer. I am not an expert. This is the way I read the matter to be and for the balance of this work, I will go on the assumption that I have read the matter correctly. If I am wrong in this assumption then the rest of this work may also be incorrect.
2. The ramifications could be many. Questions that I worry about are:
a. Are the things the people who presently call themselves Directors are doing now in Alcor's name legal? If these people are not the legal Directors what is the status of all their actions?
b. Does their continuance to run Alcor, knowing they might not be the legally elected Directors, cause some liability for Alcor?
c. Does it cause some personal liability for them? Directors are often not held liable for their mistakes in running a corporation, but that may assume to only protect legally elected Directors?
What we have here seems like a complicated problem that involves Alcor members rights as set forth in the 1972 Bylaws that may still be in force today.
I would hope, and I request, that those calling themselves Alcor Directors would hire a legal expert to give an opinion on what the situation is and how it can be made right. I would hope that at the initial meeting, and all following meetings, with this expert, that representatives of the members and the Directors would both be present to give information to the expert who is going to give his/her opinion.
I can't see any other way this is going to get resolved. Also it seems that if it turns out that the present Directors are NOT legally elected, then they need to fix the problem before they take anymore actions in Alcor's name.
=================
WHAT I AM NOT SAYING IN THIS WORK.
I am not saying that any particular Director is or is not a good Director or does or does not need to be replaced.
I certainly am NOT looking for any position of leadership in Alcor other then trying to get this problem fixed so that Alcor members can go back to having confidence that legally elected people are running Alcor.
This discussion is not about specific individuals. It is about the possibility that a mistake has been made that needs to be fixed before any other things are done in Alcor's name.
I request a reply from the Directors on this matter on what they intend to do about this. I have already requested this from the Directors with no response, so I am now including the members in this request.
Respectfully submitted to the members and the Board.
David Pizer
UNQUOTE
Welcome to the Blogger.com site for Alcor Democracy. [More] just below is the latest post-- below that, several of the latest posts by subject line-- and then below that-- the alphabetical index. Finally at the bottom, some useful introductory remarks.
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Most recent posts
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2008
(92)
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March
(18)
- 00-- OVERVIEW-- 00-- Pizer and CPlatt have gone si...
- FD-- 04-- reports board threw a bone to Pizer-- in...
- BYLAW APPROVAL?-- 01-- What's this??? Take a look
- TRIPPER MCCARTHY--04-- alternate system ignores bylaw
- DAVE PIZER-- 01-- Reappears with open ultimatum le...
- POLL-- Shannon-- Alcor members vs. Alcor board sho...
- POLL-- triper-- term limits
- POLL-- Tripper-- Do you agree with Alcor's goals
- FD-- 03-- Good concluding commentary misses bylaw ...
- GATEKEEPERS-- 05-- Alan Sinclair
- GATEKEEPERS-- Joseph P. Morgan
- POLL-- Alcor-- Do you regard DPizer as leader of A...
- POLL-- Alcor-- Alcor bylawy discovery reaction
- POLL-- Alcor-- Is Alcor board doing a good job?
- POLL-- Alcor-- Should Alcor change their board ele...
- FD-- 02-- Posts observation of silence to CryoNet
- COLD FILTER-- 03-- Slowdown continues.
- DAVE PIZER-- 00-- Public disappearance.
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▼
March
(18)
Alphabetical index of keywords -- sub-keywords
- 00-- OVERVIEW-- 00-- Pizer and CPlatt have gone silent (1)
- 01-- WELCOME-- Alcor Democracy Movement (1)
- 501c3 STATUS-- 01-- Merkle invokes potential 501c3 problem (1)
- ALCOR UNITED-- 00-- thread on Alcor democracy (1)
- ALCOR-- article of incorpoation-- director electroate (1)
- ALCOR-- board meetings-- 01-- March meeting promises tension (1)
- ALCOR-- volunteer opportunities-- Chapman should add Bylaw Research (1)
- ASCHWIN DEWOLF-- 00-- FD refers to in CF (1)
- ASTONISHING HYPOTHESIS-- 00-- Pizer points to new ground (1)
- BYLAW APPROVAL?-- 01-- What's this??? Take a look (1)
- BYLAW CHANGE-- 00-- FD points out it was not a fair change (1)
- BYLAW CHANGE-- 01-- change may have been illegal (1)
- BYLAW CHANGE-- 02-- conflicting narrative from FChamberlain and other info (1)
- BYLAW CHANGE-- 03-- CPlatt's original post to CF on discovery of original bylaw (1)
- BYLAW CHANGE-- 04-- Alcor articles of incorporation (1)
- BYLAW CHANGE-- 05-- Mike Darwin claimed responsibilty (1)
- case report (1)
- COLD FILTER-- 01-- No update Monday. (1)
- COLD FILTER-- 02-- Following Monday shows slowdown in posting. (1)
- COLD FILTER-- 03-- Slowdown continues. (1)
- COLD FILTER-- Alcor board of directors discussion-- thread by Steve Bridge (1)
- COLD FILTER-- FD-- 00-- once again (1)
- COLD FILTER-- Kidnapped-- thread by Dave (1)
- COLD FILTER-- Let's all work together-- thread by Dave (1)
- COLD FILTER-- Original Alcor bylaws-- thread by CPlatt (1)
- CONTINUUM-- 00-- My blog tracking before this specialiized blog (1)
- CRYONET-- Cryonics discussions on Alcor bylaws (1)
- CRYONET-- David Pizer messages (1)
- CRYONICS-- Alcor-- democracy-- dictatorship model (1)
- D-- 04-- reports board threw a bone to Pizer-- insufficient (1)
- DAVE PIZER-- 00-- Public disappearance. (1)
- DAVE PIZER-- 01-- Reappears with open ultimatum etter to board (1)
- DEBATE-- invitation-- Alcor board (1)
- democracy (1)
- DICTATORSHIP MODEL-- cream of crop argument (1)
- DIRECTOR ELECTORATE-- 01-- history of this option (1)
- DIRECTOR ELECTORATE-- 02-- FD's approximation method (1)
- DIRECTOR ELECTORATE-- 03-- google search (1)
- DIRECTOR ELECTORATE-- 04-- New line of reasoning by ME (1)
- DIRECTOR ELECTORATE-- 05-- Alcor's search engine shows no hits (1)
- DIRECTORS-- Let's clear the air (1)
- DISAPPEARING CRYONICISTS-- 01-- Cold Filter virtually aband (1)
- EARLIER NOTES-- Alcor democracy on Philossifur's Continuum (1)
- ED SWANK-- ACS-- 00-- suggestions (1)
- EMAIL GROUP-- 00-- I'll form my own email group here. (1)
- FD-- 01-- Fails to contextualize properly (1)
- FD-- 02-- Posts observation of silence to CryoNet (1)
- FD-- 03-- Good concluding commentary misses bylaw and polls (1)
- FRED-- 01-- Waiting to hear more from Fred on this. (1)
- GATEKEEPERS-- 01-- Keith Henson's view tended to avoid the original bylaw (1)
- GATEKEEPERS-- 02-- Wowk-VanSickle do NOT respond to Pizer on AU (1)
- GATEKEEPERS-- 05-- Alan Sinclair (1)
- GATEKEEPERS-- Joseph P. Morgan (1)
- GATEKEEPERS-- Steve Bridge-- 01-- My analysis of his comments (1)
- GEORGE-- 00-- takes it too far-- (1)
- KEITH HENSON-- 01-- Henson didn't know about original bylaw (1)
- KEITH HENSON-- 02-- Incidents have nothing to do with original bylaw (1)
- KEITH HENSON-- 03-- KH defends self-electing process based on DoraKent crisis (1)
- KEITH HENSON-- 04-- More history confusing. (1)
- LEADERSHIP-- 01-- Dave denies leadership (1)
- MAXIM-- 01-- Self Electing Boards-- (1)
- MERKLE-- vs. Pizer (1)
- NARRATIVE-- 10-- Silence (1)
- NEW STRATEGY-- 01-- I'll be containing my views (1)
- PETITION-- 00-- ReformAlcor guest book hidden (1)
- POLL-- Alcor-- Alcor bylawy discovery reaction (1)
- POLL-- Alcor-- Do you regard DPizer as leader of Alcor democracy push? (1)
- POLL-- Alcor-- Is Alcor board doing a good job? (1)
- POLL-- Alcor-- Should Alcor change their board election method to include membership votes? (1)
- POLL-- Shannon-- Alcor members vs. Alcor board should vote for board (1)
- POLL-- triper-- term limits (1)
- POLL-- Tripper-- Do you agree with Alcor's goals (1)
- PRIVATE EMAIL GROUP-- 01-- I asked to be deleted from the group (1)
- QUESTIONS by DAVE-- answers by Philossifur (1)
- REFORM ALCOR.org-- 01-- Dave lists more than just the democracy debate (1)
- REFORM ALCOR.org-- 02-- Members may already have right to vote (1)
- REFORM ALCOR.org-- 03-- Legalities of changing Alcor's board (1)
- REFORM ALCOR.org-- Dave Pizer's forum about democracy at Alcor (1)
- Saul Kent-- buying Alcor? (1)
- SILENCE-- 01-- Contined silence make internet obsolete (1)
- SILENCE-- 02-- Readers don't post (1)
- SILENCE-- 03-- CryoNet under-utilized (1)
- STEVE BRIDGE-- 00-- Intense research on the matter of self-electing boards (1)
- SURVEY-- Shannon Vyff's Poll-- 3 to 1 favor democracy (1)
- takes the wrong route (1)
- TANYA-- 00-- TANYA-- 00-- elect advisors (1)
- TANYA-- vs. Dave's responses (1)
- test (1)
- TRIPPER MCCARTHY-- 01-- blog (1)
- TRIPPER MCCARTHY-- 02-- Back to the real issue post on CF (1)
- TRIPPER MCCARTHY-- 03-- Alcor mysteries vs. bylaw (1)
- TRIPPER MCCARTHY--04-- alternate system ignores bylaw (1)
- VOTE OF CONFIDENCE-- 01-- Cold filter thread examines "how to" (1)
- WEBSITE-- ReformAlcor.org-- 01-- New site announced. (1)
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